Originally Posted by sarafiel

Just one thing to add. If you are struggling with cornering and confidence do you honestly believe an R6 is the right bike for you at the moment?

At the end of the day they are pretty much the closest thing to a race bike you can buy off the shelf. They're designed to be powered through corners and that is where they feel most comfortable.

I've tried following trainees on one whilst instructing and it was hideous. It felt unstable and twitchy. Soon as the lesson was finished I went back to my normal riding speed and it felt beautiful and planted.

If you don't have the confidence to gently brake before the bends then power through I honestly suggesting switching bikes for a bit.

Whilst I broadly agree that bikes like this aren't really ideal on the road, they're still far more rideable than some of the wobbling pieces of jelly I grew up with in the 70s... if you want a bike that felt like it was (and often WAS) going anywhere other than where you pointed it, may I refer you to the CB550F-K, which was one of the nastiest handling things it was ever my misfortune to ride.

Tyres that are too sport oriented (read triangular) and steering dampers (if fitted) don't really help at ordinary road speeds.

Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor

Not a bad idea actually... the manufacturers generally know what works best...

Do they hell as like. They know what works safest over the broadest spectrum of rider weights and styles (tho they often get that way off the mark tbh), not what works best as that is down to individual circumstance and feel.

If the supension didn't need to be adjusted for the individuals needs they wouldn't provide adjustability (they don't on some cheaper bikes, even those with adjusters)

I agree however totally that the settings some mags print are way off the mark for the average rider, if not for all, and if the OP has been "fiddling" rather than applying sound principles then they will probably be better off going back to standard settings.
IF (n.b. the big if) they have applied sound principles to improve the front end then sorting the feel out how they want/need it to feel may well help improve confidence, which after all is what is required.

Originally Posted by snarks

I didn't actually realise I had lost confidence until I started riding the bike on roads I had riden on the Triumph, and realising that everything wasn't as smooth, I was then able to realise that it was RH bends that were causing the problem and I put that down to not having the same feel at the front end, hence the suspension changes.

Yes the R6 is more radical than the TT but not to a huge extent, slightly lower bars and certainly quicker steering.

I now realise that it is a confidence thing, the bike I know will do far more than I am capable of doing to it, as TBH was the TT. At the moment I just don't trust me, I will follow the advice and just get more practice and if necessary training.

Why would the suspension affect right handers and not left handers??

You're probably throttling off mid-turn, throwing your weight on the bars and compressing the suspension, making the bike reluctant to turn.

There's a good reason for that... Riders often have problems with right handers because of the fear of running wide and off the road makes them turn in too early, apex too soon, put the power on then run wide on the exit, making exactly the mistake they tried to avoid. It's made worse by trying to follow advice from riding articles that talks about getting the power on early...

The key is get the speed down early (as we've already said), when you start to follow the corner DON'T look for the apex, but stay on a wide line on a steady throttle, and only look to cut across the lane when you see the exit (which is the place where you have the bike upright again and aimed to the next hazard!)... then open the throttle when you are upright or nearly upright - don't wind it on early!

Practice this - keep the speed down initially well inside what you know you can manage till you get used to riding on the nearside of the lane... make a deliberate effort not to turn in too soon... and be positive with the throttle when upright.

As you get happier with the wide positioning, the speed will come back... if you start feeling that you need to shut the throttle mid-turn you're too fast for your comfort level - drop the speed till you relax again.

This article on my blog might help!

Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor

This article on my blog might help!

Never actually read that one! Very good article and practice tips. Thanks Spin.

Originally Posted by wasabi

Me neither. Good article.

Glad you and Bonners think so...

I do suspect a lot of these problems come from the whole leany-forwardy riding position. With the mahoosive bar risers I've now got on the Fazer, it is SOOO much easier to turn at speed. I simply hadn't been able to do the kinds of turns that I'd been able to do since my CB500 days 4 years or so back. I'm quicker by sitting bolt-upright - go figure....

If there's no weight on the bars with an upright "weight through your bum" riding position, it's easier to feel what you're doing and you've better leverage on the bars. I don't think it's any coincidence that off-road bikes have an upright seating position. But like anything, there's a trade off, and that's under braking when the more forward position (NOT leaning on the bars but CoG) gives more grip, and secondly frontal area, which is important when the speeds go up (maybe not so much 70-80mph, but certainly it's important at the speed 600s+ can do)

One of my fav bikes to ride is the Transalp 600/650 simply because of the upright riding position.

I find (quiet) roads with nice wide lanes good place to practice messing about with fast steering. You can pretend the midlane position is the edge and get away with it if you fluff something.

Exactly - room for error - which is basically what I was getting at in that article about learning to hold a constant position away from the extremes...

Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor

Riders often have problems with right handers because of the fear of running wide and off the road makes them turn in too early, apex too soon, put the power on then run wide on the exit, making exactly the mistake they tried to avoid. It's made worse by trying to follow advice from riding articles that talks about getting the power on early....

None of the bikes I have had run wide despite me getting on the throttle from turn in and hard on it from the point the bike starts to come up from full lean. How comes the advice works for me then?

Genuine Q. Not trying to catch you out.
I just don't understand how it can work for me and not others.
I don't have different laws of physics...

Originally Posted by Adam

None of the bikes I have had run wide despite me getting on the throttle from turn in and hard on it from the point the bike starts to come up from full lean. How comes the advice works for me then?

Genuine Q. Not trying to catch you out.
I just don't understand how it can work for me and not others.
I don't have different laws of physics...

Indeed, the laws of physics are the same for all, and quite simple.

A bike at lean angle ''x and speed 'y' will corner on radius 'a' - that can be proven by a relatively simple bit of maths which I don't happen to have to hand, but can be easily found on the net.

If you increase speed 'y', then radius 'a' automatically increases at the same time...

...unless you increase lean angle 'x' at the same time.

So, ANY motorcycle, ridden by ANY rider, will run wide IF you increase speed WITHOUT increasing lean angle at the same time.

Originally Posted by Adam

None of the bikes I have had run wide despite me getting on the throttle from turn in and hard on it from the point the bike starts to come up from full lean. How comes the advice works for me then?

I don't have different laws of physics...

Probably because you 'add'/alter steering as necessary while you increase power, and maintain the 'balance'?

Momentum wants to take the bike out at a tangent, steering holds it in. Like whirling a weight on a string, compare holding the string (steering) with letting go.

At the exit from a bend, increasing power will 'lift' the bike straight.

Yes, we all have the same laws of physics, but some [a few] are Rossi & Co., most aren't.

Originally Posted by Horse

Probably because you 'add'/alter steering as necessary while you increase power, and maintain the 'balance'?

Momentum wants to take the bike out at a tangent, steering holds it in. Like whirling a weight on a string, compare holding the string (steering) with letting go.

At the exit from a bend, increasing power will 'lift' the bike straight.

Yes, we all have the same laws of physics, but some [a few] are Rossi & Co., most aren't.

It's also a dubious technique from the perspective of the "traction pie"...

If you add power as you add lean, you're asking a lot of the rear tyre.

It's analogous to braking harder as you lean further into a bend - something that riders would definitely understand is risky.