"2009 Bike Test Consultation Paper" thread in "Staying Alive"
http://www.dsa.gov.uk/Documents/Cons...tion_paper.pdf Have any of you seen this? Basically seems to be taking us back to a 2-part (or rather 4-part if you include the CBT ...

yambabe · 02-12-08, 18:00

http://www.dsa.gov.uk/Documents/Cons...tion_paper.pdf

Have any of you seen this? Basically seems to be taking us back to a 2-part (or rather 4-part if you include the CBT and theory) test, with the offroad bit booked and paid for seperately from the on-road bit.

I assume this is because of the continuing lack of new test centres and if the proposal goes through they can book more off-road tests at the MPCs as they will be shorter, and the on-road bit could still be completed at current centres?

Be interested to hear your thoughts.

trogggy · 02-12-08, 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by yambabe

Basically seems to be taking us back to a 2-part (or rather 4-part if you include the CBT and theory) test, with the offroad bit booked and paid for seperately from the on-road bit.

Better (potentially cheaper) in one way for candidates, in that failing the off-road bit will only cost them a tenner. I suppose that makes it easier to pass as well for some (in that you only have to repeat the part that's failed). Completing the on-road part if you think / know you've failed the first bit could be a bit dispiriting (although I doubt they're over-bothered about that).

Quote:

I assume this is because of the continuing lack of new test centres and if the proposal goes through they can book more off-road tests at the MPCs as they will be shorter, and the on-road bit could still be completed at current centres?

I'm sure that's right - there's no extra fee for 'out of hours' off-road tests 'cos presumably they still expect demand to exceed supply IYSWIM.

wasabi · 02-12-08, 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by trogggy

Better (potentially cheaper) in one way for candidates, in that failing the off-road bit will only cost them a tenner.

£15.50 from October...

Seems sensible to me in a way, though a real series of hoops to jump through for candidates

CBT
Theory test (+ < spit > Hazard Perception Test)
Offroad test
Onroad test

The Spin Doctor · 02-12-08, 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by trogggy

Better (potentially cheaper) in one way for candidates, in that failing the off-road bit will only cost them a tenner. I suppose that makes it easier to pass as well for some (in that you only have to repeat the part that's failed). Completing the on-road part if you think / know you've failed the first bit could be a bit dispiriting (although I doubt they're over-bothered about that).
I'm sure that's right - there's no extra fee for 'out of hours' off-road tests 'cos presumably they still expect demand to exceed supply IYSWIM.

Cheaper?

How are you going to take the off-road bit without the training school's instructor taking you there on a bike?

We're still not talking about these tests being "same town". There's no significant increase in the number of sites to match the number of test centres there are at the moment, but if these proposals are accepted the candidate have to make TWO journeys to the test centre, not just one!

Unless they find somewhere closer than Exeter to run tests (and at last count there were no plans to do that), that means TWO 200 mile round trips from Lands End for trainees.

This is even madder than the original proposal.

Incidentally, under the current deferred scheme, if you fail the off-road section, the on-road section doesn't go ahead.

Horse · 02-12-08, 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor

Cheaper?

How are you going to take the off-road bit without the training school's instructor taking you there on a bike?

Oh, they've thought of that. Apparently you'll take the car & trailer, that way you'll save money

The DVD's not too bad, though.

And there's this on the MCIA site - although well hidden! I'd suggest that anyone thinking of taking or training riders for the test saves a copy away!

Horse · 02-12-08, 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor

Incidentally, under the current deferred scheme, if you fail the off-road section, the on-road section doesn't go ahead.

According to . . .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horse

this on the MCIA site

"If they’re met, then all’s well, if not then it’s a fail but the Candidate may still carry out the on-road part of the test. He/she won’t be told of a pass/fail until the end of test. A Candidate can ask the question and if so will be given an honest answer and can elect not to continue."

trogggy · 02-12-08, 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor

Cheaper?

How are you going to take the off-road bit without the training school's instructor taking you there on a bike?

Good point. Potentially a lot cheaper if you're using your own bike and fail the off-road section first time. A bit more expensive if you use your own bike and pass first time as you have to travel twice / further. More expensive still if you're using a school bike and are accompanied by your instructor and pass first time. Presumably slightly cheaper if you use a school bike and go with an instructor and fail the off-road section first time (or several times), unless the cost of the bike / instructor is more than the difference in the costs of the off-road test and the 'complete' test.

So potentially cheaper, but potentially more expensive. Depending on your circumstances. And whether you pass first time, second time or later. And depending on which part you fail. And probably other things.

Maybe someone will offer hire bikes at test centres; seems like there might be an opportunity there.

The Spin Doctor · 02-12-08, 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horse

Oh, they've thought of that. Apparently you'll take the car & trailer, that way you'll save money

Ah right... silly me... 100 miles round trip @33mpg = 3 gallons at £5 a gallon... hmmm.. £15 quid for fuel. Plus wages...

Quote:

The DVD's not too bad, though.

Not seen that either!

Quote:

And there's this on the MCIA site - although well hidden! I'd suggest that anyone thinking of taking or training riders for the test saves a copy away!

Ah... that's really useful - that's the kind of info the DSA ought to be giving instructors.

The Spin Doctor · 02-12-08, 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horse

According to . . .

"If they’re met, then all’s well, if not then it’s a fail but the Candidate may still carry out the on-road part of the test. He/she won’t be told of a pass/fail until the end of test. A Candidate can ask the question and if so will be given an honest answer and can elect not to continue."

OK, fair enough, I stand corrected. ISTR that originally they said the road ride would not go ahead if the rider had failed to complete the off-road section safely. Which makes sense (in as much as these two wheeled trapeze acts make sense!).

The Spin Doctor · 02-12-08, 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by trogggy

Good point. Potentially a lot cheaper if you're using your own bike and fail the off-road section first time.
Not an option for DAS

A bit more expensive if you use your own bike and pass first time as you have to travel twice / further.

Quote:

More expensive still if you're using a school bike and are accompanied by your instructor and pass first time. Presumably slightly cheaper if you use a school bike and go with an instructor and fail the off-road section first time (or several times), unless the cost of the bike / instructor is more than the difference in the costs of the off-road test and the 'complete' test.

So potentially cheaper, but potentially more expensive. Depending on your circumstances. And whether you pass first time, second time or later. And depending on which part you fail. And probably other things.

The problem that people outside the training industry won't see are the problems the ATBs have working with the DSA booking system.

Ideally, what a training school would do is bung the bike in a van (or get the instructor to ride it over to the Off Road Centre with box of tools and spare parts!), and get half a dozen trainees turn up under their own steam, one after the other and knock off the tests in 90 mins. Then everyone can go home, and the instructor can ride back to the school.

However, what anyone with any experience of the booking system will know is that if you manage to get two slots on the same day, they'll probably be hours apart, so the instructor is stuck hanging about for hours waiting for the second slot.

Quote:

Maybe someone will offer hire bikes at test centres; seems like there might be an opportunity there.

Hmmm.. interesting idea!

Horse · 03-12-08, 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor

Ah... that's really useful - that's the kind of info the DSA ought to be giving instructors.

ATBs have been provided with an info pack - but had run out when I asked for one . . .

. . . They sent two DVDs instead

phuk72 · 03-12-08, 09:40

Other than being 2 tests as opposed to 1, how is this actually different to what was supposed to be introduced in September this year?

I take exception to more proposed increases in fees. The DSA has just increased the test fee to £80 to take account of the new test (which they are still charging despite the old test still being taken until March 2009) and then they want to whack another £10.50 on in October!!

All this will do is increase costs and make passing a motorcycle prohibitively expensive for all but the committed.

Cousin Jack · 03-12-08, 09:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by phuk72

All this will do is increase costs and make passing a motorcycle prohibitively expensive for all but the committed.

But think of the lovely short-term revenue stream. You are confusing the DSA with someone who gives a shit about drivers/riders.

The Spin Doctor · 03-12-08, 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by phuk72

Other than being 2 tests as opposed to 1, how is this actually different to what was supposed to be introduced in September this year?

I take exception to more proposed increases in fees. The DSA has just increased the test fee to £80 to take account of the new test (which they are still charging despite the old test still being taken until March 2009) and then they want to whack another £10.50 on in October!!

All this will do is increase costs and make passing a motorcycle prohibitively expensive for all but the committed.

You won't go from the off-road exercise directly onto the road for the on-road part of the test - so it will mean TWO SEPERATE trips to the test centre to complete the full test.

And I've already been onto the industry about getting the test fees reduced back to their pre-September rate and refunds given to those who've had to pay the higher rate because the DSA haven't delivered the test the higher fees were introduced to cover.

As regards "prohibitively expensive", the same was said about DAS. In fact, I said it myself.

But the market for riding has changed. There are relatively few riders scraping the pennies together for the training.

Most will be jumping on a brand new £5 / 6K bike when they've passed the test, have already spent a grand on riding kit and are planning exactly which £500 aftermarket exhaust they're going to put on the R6.

But they'll still look for the school offering the cheapest course and THAT'S who will be hit in the pocket - the schools furthest away from the MPTCs.

phuk72 · 03-12-08, 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor

You won't go from the off-road exercise directly onto the road for the on-road part of the test - so it will mean TWO SEPERATE trips to the test centre to complete the full test..

OIC

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor

As regards "prohibitively expensive", the same was said about DAS. In fact, I said it myself.

But the market for riding has changed. There are relatively few riders scraping the pennies together for the training.

Most will be jumping on a brand new £5 / 6K bike when they've passed the test, have already spent a grand on riding kit and are planning exactly which £500 aftermarket exhaust they're going to put on the R6.

But they'll still look for the school offering the cheapest course and THAT'S who will be hit in the pocket - the schools furthest away from the MPTCs.

That's very true, the school my Mrs is using to do her DAS is facing, with the proposed closure of the local test centre, a 120 mile round trip to the nearest new centre. He doesn't seem hopeful of long term employment!

02-12-08, 18:00	#1 (permalink)
yambabe Furry Muff Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Out & About Posts: 885 Casino cash: £571300 Thanks: 25 Thanked: 4/4	2009 Bike Test Consultation Paper http://www.dsa.gov.uk/Documents/Cons...tion_paper.pdf Have any of you seen this? Basically seems to be taking us back to a 2-part (or rather 4-part if you include the CBT and theory) test, with the offroad bit booked and paid for seperately from the on-road bit. I assume this is because of the continuing lack of new test centres and if the proposal goes through they can book more off-road tests at the MPCs as they will be shorter, and the on-road bit could still be completed at current centres? Be interested to hear your thoughts.
	Sod falling in love, I want to fall in chocolate!

03-12-08, 09:40	#12 (permalink)
phuk72 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Cotswolds Posts: 108 Casino cash: £150300 Thanks: 0 Thanked: 4/4	Re: 2009 Bike Test Consultation Paper Other than being 2 tests as opposed to 1, how is this actually different to what was supposed to be introduced in September this year? I take exception to more proposed increases in fees. The DSA has just increased the test fee to £80 to take account of the new test (which they are still charging despite the old test still being taken until March 2009) and then they want to whack another £10.50 on in October!! All this will do is increase costs and make passing a motorcycle prohibitively expensive for all but the committed.

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"2009 Bike Test Consultation Paper" thread in "Staying Alive" http://www.dsa.gov.uk/Documents/Cons...tion_paper.pdf Have any of you seen this? Basically seems to be taking us back to a 2-part (or rather 4-part if you include the CBT ...

"2009 Bike Test Consultation Paper" thread in "Staying Alive"
http://www.dsa.gov.uk/Documents/Cons...tion_paper.pdf Have any of you seen this? Basically seems to be taking us back to a 2-part (or rather 4-part if you include the CBT ...