"2009 Bike Test Consultation Paper" thread in "Staying Alive"
Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor In the original consultation the use of the HGV test sites was dismissed as the area couldn't be guaranteed ...

wasabi · 03-12-08, 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor

In the original consultation the use of the HGV test sites was dismissed as the area couldn't be guaranteed to be clear of diesel contamination.

Shouldn't examinees be able to spot and avoid it?

kwh · 07-12-08, 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horse

The difference, as I read [between the lines] is a 'take it or leave it' choice: either accept the current [lack of] MPT centres, or accept the lack of centres with the option, in some areas aditional areas, of 'modular' testing in the only way DSA can manage (eg weekend use of VOSA sites*).

*Spilt diesel, anyone?

You see, I saw a story about the consultation and thought... 'Ah! Some small amount of sanity!'.

Perhaps I was wrong, but my reading of it was that a training school could say 'we'll block book the second and fourth Thursday afternoons every month at the nearest MPT', sling all their bikes in their van and take them there, and have all of their current post-CBT punters turn up there under their own steam to practice for and take their 'offroad tests'. Then the remainder of the test regime would be exactly as it always has been, with examiners for the onroad part of the test at local driving test centres.

Is this far too sensible?

The Spin Doctor · 07-12-08, 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwh

You see, I saw a story about the consultation and thought... 'Ah! Some small amount of sanity!'.

Perhaps I was wrong, but my reading of it was that a training school could say 'we'll block book the second and fourth Thursday afternoons every month at the nearest MPT', sling all their bikes in their van and take them there, and have all of their current post-CBT punters turn up there under their own steam to practice for and take their 'offroad tests'. Then the remainder of the test regime would be exactly as it always has been, with examiners for the onroad part of the test at local driving test centres.

Is this far too sensible?

Well, shows you haven't read the other posts!

From my post (4th in the thread):

"We're still not talking about these tests being "same town". There's no significant increase in the number of sites to match the number of test centres there are at the moment, but if these proposals are accepted the candidate have to make TWO journeys to the test centre, not just one!

Unless they find somewhere closer than Exeter to run tests (and at last count there were no plans to do that), that means TWO 200 mile round trips from Lands End for trainees.

This is even madder than the original proposal."

And from my post (tenth in this thread):

The problem that people outside the training industry won't see are the problems the ATBs have working with the DSA booking system.

Ideally, what a training school would do is bung the bike in a van (or get the instructor to ride it over to the Off Road Centre with box of tools and spare parts!), and get half a dozen trainees turn up under their own steam, one after the other and knock off the tests in 90 mins. Then everyone can go home, and the instructor can ride back to the school.

However, what anyone with any experience of the booking system will know is that if you manage to get two slots on the same day, they'll probably be hours apart, so the instructor is stuck hanging about for hours waiting for the second slot.

trogggy · 07-12-08, 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor

Well, shows you haven't read the other posts!

From my post (4th in the thread):

...if these proposals are accepted the candidate have to make TWO journeys to the test centre, not just one!

But not necessarily to the same test centre.
From the document...

Quote:

The proposal to split the practical motorcycling test into a modular format will positively impact on those living in rural areas. The implementation of the new practical motorcycling test as a single event would have meant that some candidates would have had to travel long distances in order to take a test at a MPTC. The modular test will help provide a wider range of testing facilities and aims to reduce the distance with which candidates have to travel to test centres.

Seems they're aiming for about 100 test sites, as opposed to 60ish in the original plans. That can't be all bad news, surely?

The Spin Doctor · 07-12-08, 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by trogggy

But not necessarily to the same test centre.
From the document...
Seems they're aiming for about 100 test sites, as opposed to 60ish in the original plans. That can't be all bad news, surely?

The 10 min off-road bit will actually have to be done at the limited number MPTCs or the VOSA/casual sites. Huge parts of the country are still outside this 45 min travel time - I'd be interested to know how they came up with their coverage % figures because it bears little resemblance to the map in the annex!! - so we're still looking at silly journey lengths for a ten minute test.

Unless this is coupled with a MAJOR change to the way the DSA allot test slots so that the training school can maximise the use of the bike on the day, it's going to have a very serious effect on the logistics of the school. As I said, if it goes anything like the existing booking system it's quite likely the school will be unable to book adjacent slots and the instructor will have to kick his heels waiting half the day for the trainee's 10 mins of fun and frolics.

What they should have been looking to do was minimise the journey time for this offroad hoops exercise, not the other way round.

elldrivers · 07-12-08, 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor

In the original consultation the use of the HGV test sites was dismissed as the area couldn't be guaranteed to be clear of diesel contamination.

But quite happy to use a parking area at the local Football stadium.

Horse · 07-12-08, 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by wasabi

Shouldn't examinees be able to spot and avoid it?

I'll give this a sensible reply in case anyone didn't see the '

'

Since they're riding a course marked by cones, no.

kwh · 09-12-08, 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor

Well, shows you haven't read the other posts!

On the contrary, I did read the other posts. If your interpretation is correct then it is indeed insane. However, I can see no reason why the on-road part of the test cannot be conducted out of existing car test centres, even if one bike examiner serves two or more car test centres. I mean, the examiner needs a desk and a chair and a clipboard, and somewhere to meet the candidate, so why not at the local car test centres? Better one examiner riding to more than one test centre to conduct tests on different days than 30 candidates on L-plates having to ride 50 miles to get tested...

If that isn't the proposal (why not?), then it should be, and people should be writing that in to the consultation!

wasabi · 10-12-08, 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwh

On the contrary, I did read the other posts. If your interpretation is correct then it is indeed insane. However, I can see no reason why the on-road part of the test cannot be conducted out of existing car test centres, even if one bike examiner serves two or more car test centres. I mean, the examiner needs a desk and a chair and a clipboard, and somewhere to meet the candidate, so why not at the local car test centres? Better one examiner riding to more than one test centre to conduct tests on different days than 30 candidates on L-plates having to ride 50 miles to get tested...

If that isn't the proposal (why not?), then it should be, and people should be writing that in to the consultation!

Good point. We have to live in a world where we are probably a rather expensive-to-service minority. So making good use of existing facilities seems to make sense - though that in itself kills the idea of the offroad test

The Spin Doctor · 10-12-08, 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwh

On the contrary, I did read the other posts. If your interpretation is correct then it is indeed insane. However, I can see no reason why the on-road part of the test cannot be conducted out of existing car test centres, even if one bike examiner serves two or more car test centres. I mean, the examiner needs a desk and a chair and a clipboard, and somewhere to meet the candidate, so why not at the local car test centres? Better one examiner riding to more than one test centre to conduct tests on different days than 30 candidates on L-plates having to ride 50 miles to get tested...

If that isn't the proposal (why not?), then it should be, and people should be writing that in to the consultation!

Insane is about it. Don't forget this whole process went thru the consultation stage several years back and the DSA completely ignored the feedback from the training schools at that stage who pointed out all the problems associated with the MPTCs. Just a few obvious ones:

remoteness from many areas leading to extended journey times for candidates
increased costs resulting
increased numbers of vehicles in the test area

The whole point of the off-road test was that it would NOT be a separate test from the onr-road practical element. The "solution" to the lack of suitable MPTC is causing even more inconvenience to the trainee and the training school. It's easy to say "it's a solution" but it's a solution to a problem that should never have happened in the first place.

The "30 mins" access time was never going to happen. You'd need an MPTC every 30 miles across the country for that distance/time equation to work, because it's tough to average more than 30mph. Even the current "45 mins" claim for the majority of the population is laughable. We can't use motorways, so many of the routes trainees would need to use would route them through town centres and all the consequent delays of riding in the rush hour.

I suspect they are also finally taking note that one of the major problems of reducing the number of test centres to the proposed 60-odd MPTC to conduct the on-road test is that the examiners will be tripping over each other whilst actually conducting the test out on the road. Not to mention the training schools actually familiarising them will also be riding round the same area. One of the MPTCs is based at Herne Bay - it's a pretty small town, and not even a "full circle" - the sea is on one side, so effectively you have half a town to conduct bike tests in.

And I dare say there has been a lot of discontent from the examiners too: "well if you expect me to ride 100 miles to the MPTC, so that I have to leave home at 6am and not leave work till 5 to do the reverse journey, then I'll jack in the bike tests and just go back to doing cars at the local centre".

You also need to accept that driving examiners are professionals. Would YOU do a job with just "a desk and a chair and a clipboard"? I doubt it. I certainly can't blame them for wanting decent facilities, and clearly they also need access to telephones, secure PCs as well as a loo! Which is one reason temporary sites for the off-road test aren't likely to be a go-er.

Horse · 10-12-08, 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor

You also need to accept that driving examiners are professionals. Would YOU do a job with just "a desk and a chair and a clipboard"? I doubt it. I certainly can't blame them for wanting decent facilities, and clearly they also need access to telephones, secure PCs as well as a loo! Which is one reason temporary sites for the off-road test aren't likely to be a go-er.

Do you reckon any of CSM's old Portakabins & storage containers are still gracing the greyhound stadium car parks?

The Spin Doctor · 10-12-08, 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horse

Do you reckon any of CSM's old Portakabins & storage containers are still gracing the greyhound stadium car parks?

I think most of them were sold on to the team already managing the site... that certainly happened at Catford and Chatham.

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"2009 Bike Test Consultation Paper" thread in "Staying Alive" Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor In the original consultation the use of the HGV test sites was dismissed as the area couldn't be guaranteed ...

"2009 Bike Test Consultation Paper" thread in "Staying Alive"
Originally Posted by The Spin Doctor In the original consultation the use of the HGV test sites was dismissed as the area couldn't be guaranteed ...