"OK - no hi-viz, how about Honda's new FACE?" thread in "Staying Alive"
Originally Posted by CoolHands OK so the rights / wrongs of Hi-Viz stretches on. But Honda has a Conspicuity Enhancement Design programme, of which part ...

IIRC they say that there research has found that diagonals are easiest to identify - can't remember exact wording. It could just be that a diagonal allows the longest single unbroken 'line' possible in a certain frontal area.

If you remember from the other thread, both Voyager and I suggest emphasising 'width' - ie 'a longer line'.

The bike it's on is a scooter, and the light's on a high 'sissy bar' arrangement.

Convinced? Have a watch of the three videos - many of the 'safety improvements' would be 'solved' by better driving. But that's too easy Read the other [Honda] thread for more comment.



The Ride: Things I have Seen . . .

But worth 'developing' for situations you may only meet a few times. But it still has to be a "Whoah! I'm not happy, so I'll slow until I know what it is!" reaction.

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Argue with me: http://the-ride-info.blogspot.com/

However, a lot of the time if you can't identify what you're looking the reaction is to do nothing!

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"Force has no place where there is need of skill" Herodotus 450BC

How does a driver know those times from the times when a reaction is urgently needed?

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Argue with me: http://the-ride-info.blogspot.com/

15 pages, and five personal insults, anymore for anymore?

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"Its easier to make a fast bike reliable than a reliable bike fast" Soichiro Honda.

Precisely... if you create uncertainty and hesitation... you get uncertain and hesistant responses.

I want to know exactly what I'm looking at, not to have to guess.

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"Force has no place where there is need of skill" Herodotus 450BC

However, there will be circumstances when you won't know what something is until you've had time to look it over. There has to be a first time for everything. Even then, there are things that drivers may only see once in their driving career.

Example plucked from the air (because I know you'll ask for one ):

Night, dark lane; you're doing 60mph
Selection of reflective patches moving - perhaps appearing to 'wobble' - just above ground level
More reflective panels/strips significantly higher
Slow moving

Not pedestrians
Not cyclists





OK, worked it out? Horse [no relation] with reflective leg bands, and rider in hi-viz waistcoat. Perhaps you did work it out. Even then, at 60 along the lane you wouldn't have had long to make that decision.

As a 'default', 'slow' has to be a good reaction even if only on the basis of increased time to react.

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Argue with me: http://the-ride-info.blogspot.com/

Yes, and in most circs I would respond by slowing... but that could put me at significant risk from behind given the car driver behind can't see what I'm seeing...

In the situation I mentioned above with the weird light arrangement I was turning right, I started to go, then hit the brakes. What would the driver behind have made of that?

I still think that creating uncertainty only creates unexpected responses.

(And I did work it out, although an alternative thought from your description was a "walking bus" with a bunch of kids wearing those "slap-ons" round their ankles)

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"Force has no place where there is need of skill" Herodotus 450BC

Do you actually have anything to say other than stupid comments about what other people are posting?

My whole point!

There will be situations where you meet something very unusual for the first time.

It's not creating uncertainty, it's existing uncertainty.

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Argue with me: http://the-ride-info.blogspot.com/

what, like your doing right here

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http://www.myspace.com/jamesisnotaperson

Which is why you have a driving/riding instructor - to ease you through unfamiliar situations and ensure that your reactions to the unfamiliar aren't dangerous to you or others

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"Force has no place where there is need of skill" Herodotus 450BC

Nope.

Point <-----> Missed

Example:
A few months ago I was driving along the M4 in the dark.

Set of roadworks, featuring a relatively new innovation in signing: the cones that were angled across all three lanes to close the Mway had sequential flashing lights, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7, and repeat. (In Ye Olden Days the lights flashed independantly)

I hadn't seen that before.

Thee will always be things we haven't seen before. And there often won't be an instructor with us, and usually not on an M-way . . .

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Argue with me: http://the-ride-info.blogspot.com/

Brilliant!. Very good indeed – simple & succinct.

This is so near that earlier topic you touched on.

Yes, you have

Of course. But driving instruction covers the 'base set' of the common experiences.

And as you drive you learn more wrinkles, but usually with some prior experience to call on - your hi vis horse for instance, you knew you were looking at something slow with reflective patches on it, even if you didn't know what it is.

But confront a driver with an apparently random selection of lights, and will they know what they are looking at, how far away it is, or where it's going? I doubt it.

Given that the average driver has a good idea of what to look for these lights ARE creating uncertainty. That's exactly their function - to try to make a driver look twice.

Now I've already mentioned the danger of a driver starting to do something, then hesitating or changing their mind in my right turn I mentioned above, and the following question I asked you about how the following driver would react you ignored.

So I'll tell you. What's coming along the other lane is of no interest to the driver going straight on. They'll look at you turning right and see no reason you shouldn't complete the turn. So they won't slow or be prepared to slow. So when you hesitate because you see the weird UFO coming the other way, they'll not react.

That is a situation I do not want to be put in.

I want to know exactly what I'm looking so I can act decisively myself.

Now add in the function of driving in real traffic (rather than some neat experiement of photo where you divorce the UFO from reality), where you're looking in lots of different directions at lots of different things and integrating a lot of different information. In real traffic you haven't got time to f*ck about trying to identify a UFO on the horizon. That's why we have standardised things like traffic signs across Europe - so drivers don't have to relearn a fundamental system of warnings.

I was cursing as I was driving thru France in September because every single village seemed to have a different system of traffic calming. I smacked into one speed hump at 30mph because I simply hadn't seen it, because I was concentrating on other, apparently more important issues at that moment, and hadn't noticed the hump.

The more ways you create uncertainty and hesitation the less safe you make driving. End of, IMO. I can't see how it makes life safer for the rider or for other road users.

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"Force has no place where there is need of skill" Herodotus 450BC

Thanks

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Sponsor Page XMAS OFFERS Blog Website Courses Riding Tips Shop
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The dull copyright bit - feel free to nick it for personal use. If you want to reprint it for your club, I'd like a mention as author. Otherwise hands-off. Full terms
"Force has no place where there is need of skill" Herodotus 450BC