"Where did i go wrong?" thread in "Staying Alive"
Originally Posted by Bladerideressex Not really sure why you would want to brake vigorously in the wet on an approach to a junction TBH?? What ...

I was in the middle of the lane, so that could have contributed. Cockyness? I.e. done it umpteen times before, being a bit too 'relaxed' in terms of what could go wrong? Hate to say that, but it is something I need to consider.

Nope, no petrol station nearby.

Oh and I have been looking at my kit. I have never really thought of it in terms of protection, only weather protection and comfort really. I reckon I slip for perhaps 20 or 30 yards, bit difficult to judge and all the HG textile gear held up quite well. Considering I mainly slip on my left hand side, the trousers are hardly ripped -cruise pants- and the arm on the jacket is badly ripped, but still had all the padding and armour to go through. I have bruising on my right knee, and the pants are holed there, I suspect that is where I fell off. My fingers on my left hand are particularly badly swollen, although both gloves are mainly intact.

In fact the only actual scar rather than bruise, is on my upper lip, where I think my visor lifted up at the last second and the tarmac started scrapping it as there is some fairly extensive scrapping on the front of the helmet.

I have put details up of the kit to show that it did work in these circumstances, I was nervous of doing so, as exaggerated claims for protection offered can lead to risk compensation. I just think I was luckily that there was no major interfaces with other objects, apart from the road. In that instance, the kit was able to do the job it was intended for. I am under no illusions though that if it had been a busier road, or if I had hit any road furniture I may not have been so luckily.

Obviously it would have been far better not to have fallen off in the first place, which is the reason to try and learn off a thread like this. The more I think about it, I think in this instance it was mainly excess speed and cockiness when it came to the braking that has led to my downfall.

Ah, well, off to llok for parts to make the thing rideable again. I rode it home before the adrenaline wore off, which in retrospect was probably a bit stupid, but at least i can sort it in my own time now.

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TALK TO ME OR THE BUNNY GETS IT!

reduce the vigour!

i'm lucky that i have a lot of engine braking, but i still exercise defcon 5 braking in the wet as you cannot anticipate the grip level, manholes, overbanding, white lines, shellgrip etc.

GWS

Oh bugger! Glad you're not too bashed up. T-cut and gaffer tape will sort the bike by the sounds of it!!

....mixed with wet 'summer' roads is never a great combination. But you know that now so don't dwell on it too much or it'll turn into a bit of a head-f*ck. Chalk it down to experience, learn from it and then move on.

Not really. If the bike and you were in ok working order then get yourself off the road before the police rock up and you're added to the bike crash statistics!!!! If you were a real man then you would have slid down the road holding onto the clutch so it didn't stall, allowing you to pick it up immediately and carry on along your merry way

have you checked your tyre pressures? Same thing happened to me only i had a leaky valve on the front and hadn't realised that the PSI had dropped a LOT.

Hope you're ok.

Glad you are ok.

I was unpleasantly reminded why I (should always) brake in the wet as if I'm on ice a couple of weeks ago, when heading east along Upper Thames Street after a Sunday afternoon shower, at 30mph, the car ahead of me decided to practice an emergency stop as the upcoming lights turned amber. As a matter of course I had left a lot of room as there was no easy escape into the next lane, so squeezed on the brakes and ... skated. Both wheels lost traction. Releasing and bringing the brakes (front first of course) on again gently had the same effect ... the bike didn't flip, it wiggled and skated. I stopped eventually, but with not much room to spare. Like you, Bonners, there were no obvious diesel slicks etc, but thinking back I realised that I was in the centre of the lane and not in one of the tyre tracks.

I was reminded of Bob, my instructor, who warned of the centre-lane grease-strip that lays in wait for unwary bikers.

Like you, my final analysis is that my progressive braking probably wasn't as progressive as it felt/was intended and road emulsion, which may be less likely to be broken down quickly in the centre of the lane, did the rest. Why the bike didn't flip is anyone's guess. It had nothing to do with me!

Presuming that it was not just some hamfisted operator error () what condition are your tyres and brakes in? Any other oddities from them before this?

Did Bob actually show you this 'centre-lane grease-strip'?

I ask as I've been riding for nearly 30 years and never had a problem with anything more than the odd (usually fuel) spillage. IME this does not exist. Certainly not everywhere and, given I think Bonners rides this road regularly, he'd have seen this 'centre-lane grease-strip' every single day for the past x years wouldn't he?

I have just checked my tyres, back was spot on, front is 32 thingies (should be 36), bearing in mind that it may have lost a bit in the impact, I dont think it would have affected it. Tyres, suspension and brakes all in decent nick. Unfortunately I think it was 'ham fisted' operator error

In the last few months I have managed to get 3 more points on my licence, have an interaction with a pedestrian, and now finally this. I need to have a proper think about my riding, as this has totally blown my confidence. I am not a fast rider, but I had confidence to be safe at the speeds I did travel. Some serious working out of where I am going wrong is needed.

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TALK TO ME OR THE BUNNY GETS IT!

It sounds very much like my off in Luxembourg last year. That was definitely engine oil (on stone mastic asphalt too I think). You couldn't see it at all but I went back and you could feel it underfoot, it was like ice in places.

Hope you and the bike aren't too bashed up. GWS.

Indeed he did, the best example being the Blackwall tunnel, where because of the narrow lanes and no overtaking, only bikes use the centre part of the lane. Crud of all descriptions oil, diesel, dust blah blah accumulates and doesn't get dispersed by tyres. It's not hard to see. Mix with a bit of water and hey presto, a slippery thing!

My point was that on some roads, more crud accumulates in centre lane than in the wheel tracks, possibly making it more slippery. This is of course a theory, supported only be observation, my limited experience and the annectodal reports of other, including dear old Bob. I wonder how he is?

If you wish to dispove it, then we'll wait for a wet day (not hard!) and you can try it in the Blackwall tunnel. I'll be behind you with elastoplast and a thermos of coco or a grovelling apology and acknowledgement that there is no such thing as the Grease Monster.

As for my own slide, bike is ZZR1100, tyres Pilot Road II (new-ish), pressure 41/41 and rider hamfisted.

K x

Did you slip on it? It is years since I've had to suffer the Blackwall tunnel but don't remember it being any more particularly unpleasant than the rest of London.
Indeed and where have you slipped on this dangerous 'centre-lane grease-strip' as I seem to have not found it everywhere.
I don't disagree that many road surfaces can be slippery when freshly wetted after a dry period and I don't doubt that parts of the Blackwall tunnel can be slippery when wet. But this does not prove the existence of a 'centre-lane grease-strip' - other than perhaps occurring in very unusual and highly specific circumstances does it?

I'd hazard a guess at a number of factors coming together, any of which in isolation or a small cluster not a problem, but you may have won the lottery and got them all, plus the bonus problem.

Select as many as you like:

- Damp/wet road, reduces grip.
- Greasy strip/fuel/other lubricant spilt, further reduces grip
- Cold tyres, or at least not at full working temp.
- Over-keen application
- Damp disk (from spray) possibly causing 'grab' from you, overcoming limited tyre grip as brake works harder when it clears the damp (not much of a problem these days, but in early days of stainless steel disks this could take 3 - 4 seconds, and by then you'd be squeezing as hard as you possibly could so they'd go full on when they did bite!
- Your God having a laugh

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Argue with me: http://the-ride-info.blogspot.com/

Not wanting to get into any kind of disagreement (I've got other things to be getting on with, thankyouverymuch) I can indeed confirm that it is my opinion that there are areas of road where, either due to the stationariousness of the traffic, the unlanechangeability of the specific area, or the general unfairness of the gods, that crud (oil, diesel or whatever) build up between the normal car tyre positions on a road, and that this can lead to a lower surface friction than that available a couple of feet to the right or the left, where car tyres tend to be.

That is my opinion. I'm sure many may disagree, and that's fine by me.

Like on the approach to junctions / traffic lights / roundabouts / bus stops, where traffic sits and queues (I recently read an article about that IIRC ).

And, of course, Bonners was approaching a roundabout . . .

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Argue with me: http://the-ride-info.blogspot.com/

It's quite definitely a reality in most larger towns that suffer congestion and a lot of 3rd hand vehicles.

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non quod, sed quomodo