Climate change is a religious belief

Kyot · 20-09-09, 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by saga_lout

Climate Change Timeline – 1895-2009 But Now You Know shows how the consensus has changed since the end of the 19th century. Do you blame me for being sceptical?

Do you think that the scientific community, who've been working the the field for 10,20 or more years, don't know all this history and more? Do you think they are ignoring it? If so, why? Some kind of government conspiracy maybe? (If climate change is like religion, I guess we expect Dan Browns next book (published in about 3 hours) to be about the Climate Change Conspiracy

)
Or maybe you're just cherry picking the evidence you like to support your, quite natural, skepticism about Them (governments, institutions what ever).

demographic · 20-09-09, 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyot

Do you think that the scientific community, who've been working the the field for 10,20 or more years, don't know all this history and more? Do you think they are ignoring it? If so, why? Some kind of government conspiracy maybe? (If climate change is like religion, I guess we expect Dan Browns next been (published in about 3 hours) to be about the Climate Change Conspiracy

)
Or maybe you're just cherry picking the evidence you like to support your, quite natural, skepticism about Them (governments, institutions what ever).

Wow its amazing that all those climatologists are wrong and the clever climate Denial Groups funded by ExxonMobil are right

demographic · 20-09-09, 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by moto748

As I've argued before, it seems to me that the analogy is with smoking causing cancer. For many years, people didn't believe it, because it suited them not to. Until the scientific evidence became overwhelming.

Its pretty much exactly that.

protoborg · 20-09-09, 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by moto748

Well, I don't know about your use of the word "line", but for your argument to be valid, as far as I can see, you need to believe there is equivalence and equal validity between your opinion and that of the world's leading scientists. I don't share that view. As the man said, opinions are like arseholes; everyone's got one. That doesn't mean that everyone's opinion is equally worthwhile.

[edit] That was to protoborg, obviously.

The issue of the "worlds leading scientists" in itself is contested, so whether I'm disputing with them or not is a point to be established.

Quote:

If global warming/climate change is a load of bollocks, and if most people think so, why don't opposition parties all over the world say so, and get swept to power at the next elections?

Perhaps they see it as a massive diversion from issues we should deal with.

Kyot · 20-09-09, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by demographic

Wow its amazing that all those climatologists are wrong and the clever climate Denial Groups funded by ExxonMobil are right

yeh, yeh... but it organistions like ESA (putting out propaganda like this ESA - Observing the Earth - Understanding Our Planet - Climate change or that ESA - CryoSat - Ice and climate) that are the real culprits. Clearly a public funded body - and an extra national one at that - who's missions and publications are massively audited and peer reviewed, and who's data is available for anyone - are the ones with an conspiratorial agenda

protoborg · 20-09-09, 20:25

scotsrich · 20-09-09, 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by moto748

As always, it's a pleasure to be patronised by you.

If global warming/climate change is a load of bollocks, and if most people think so, why don't opposition parties all over the world say so, and get swept to power at the next elections?

Because it's a good way to excuse the world going to hell without getting to the root of the problem.

And the root of the problem? OVERPOPULATION which no party/country has the balls to provide a solution to.

You can compost your kitchen waste if it makes you feel better but until the world population levels off you're pissing into the wind.

moto748 · 20-09-09, 20:32

Problem is, though, if a political party was honest about the tough measures they needed to take, not just on climate change, but a whole raft of issues, then no-one would vote for them. That's the trouble with democracy, isn't it?

Over-population, and associated issues like water shortages and desertification (themselves both linked to climate change to some extent) is a real and massive problem, I agree. But I think blaming politicians for our ills is more than a little lame.

Remember the "human rights" outcry when China brought in that one child per family (or was it two?) rule? I suspect that if we're honest, most of us think that poor brown, black and yellow folks overseas should stop breeding, whilst we continue to do what we like.

protoborg · 20-09-09, 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by moto748

Problem is, though, if a political party was honest about the tough measures they needed to take, not just on climate change, but a whole raft of issues, then no-one would vote for them. That's the trouble with democracy, isn't it?

Over-population, and associated issues like water shortages and desertification (themselves both linked to climate change to some extent) is a real and massive problem, I agree. But I think blaming politicians for our ills is more than a little lame.

Remember the "human rights" outcry when China brought inthat one child per family (or was it two?) rule? I suspect that if we're honest, most of us think that poor brown, black and yellow folks overseas should stop breeding, whilst we continue to do what we like.

You must teach me this bait mix sometime.

moto748 · 20-09-09, 20:37

Trouble is, the best way to stop big families in the Third World is to raise their standards of living. But if we did that, then our shrinking resources would be used up in no time. It's a tricky one, and no mistake!

moto748 · 20-09-09, 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by protoborg

You must teach me this bait mix sometime.

Yeah, did you like the way I slipped that in?

saga_lout · 20-09-09, 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by demographic

Wow its amazing that all those climatologists are wrong and the clever climate Denial Groups funded by ExxonMobil are right

Scientists have been wrong before. Of course it doesn't follow that they are wrong now but a wise person would keep his mind open to the possibility.

By the way, how clever of you to call those who disagree with you "deniers". If you say I'm in denial and I say I'm not I guess that makes you right. Have you stopped beating your wife?

protoborg · 20-09-09, 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by moto748

Trouble is, the best way to stop big families in the Third World is to raise their standards of living. But if we did that, then our shrinking resources would be used up in no time. It's a tricky one, and no mistake!

There is a fairly close relationship between infant mortality and family size, this has shown to be regardless of culture.

demographic · 20-09-09, 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by saga_lout

Scientists have been wrong before. Of course it doesn't follow that they are wrong now but a wise person would keep his mind open to the possibility.

By the way, how clever of you to call those who disagree with you "deniers". If you say I'm in denial and I say I'm not I guess that makes you right. Have you stopped beating your wife?

Easy tiger, that ones a bit out of the blue isn't it?

big bald one · 20-09-09, 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by moto748

I suspect that if we're honest, most of us think that poor brown, black and yellow folks overseas should stop breeding, whilst we continue to do what we like.

Wrong, I think we should all ease off with the breeding lark.

I personally wouldn't dream of bringing a child into this rapidly fucked up world.

View Poll Results: You position on climate change
CLimate change is real and anyone who does not beleive is a heretic	1	5.26%
I think climate change is a real but not to the point of religious zeal	5	26.32%
I'm almost convinced on climate change is real but have some doubts	2	10.53%
I'm almost convinced that climate change is not real but have some doubts	0	0%
There is no such thing as climate change, its the earths natural rhythm	10	52.63%
Bangers and mash for me tea, I can't wait	1	5.26%
Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll

20-09-09, 20:25	#21
protoborg Clunk Clique Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: weetabix gone city Posts: 11,021 Cash: £2085000 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 88 Thanked: 69/66	Re: Climate change is a religious belief
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20-09-09, 20:32	#23
moto748 Really Bored Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Wiltshire Posts: 2,493 Cash: £2987451 Thanks: 17 Thanked: 8/7	Re: Climate change is a religious belief Problem is, though, if a political party was honest about the tough measures they needed to take, not just on climate change, but a whole raft of issues, then no-one would vote for them. That's the trouble with democracy, isn't it? Over-population, and associated issues like water shortages and desertification (themselves both linked to climate change to some extent) is a real and massive problem, I agree. But I think blaming politicians for our ills is more than a little lame. Remember the "human rights" outcry when China brought in that one child per family (or was it two?) rule? I suspect that if we're honest, most of us think that poor brown, black and yellow folks overseas should stop breeding, whilst we continue to do what we like.

20-09-09, 20:37	#25
moto748 Really Bored Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Wiltshire Posts: 2,493 Cash: £2987451 Thanks: 17 Thanked: 8/7	Re: Climate change is a religious belief Trouble is, the best way to stop big families in the Third World is to raise their standards of living. But if we did that, then our shrinking resources would be used up in no time. It's a tricky one, and no mistake!

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Climate change is a religious belief

Originally Posted by saga_lout Climate Change Timeline – 1895-2009 But Now You Know shows how the consensus has changed since the end of the 19th ...